DISCUSIÓN ABIERTA [Foro] Foros ENTREVISTAS An Interview with Professor Julio Cavalli

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  • Sencillez OrdenSencillez Orden
    Jefe de claves
    Número de entradas: 1475
     
    Copyright-2011 ©Sencillez & Orden
     
    Julio Nestor Garifo Cavalli, known as Julio Cavalli, was born on 24th September, 1960, and resides in Buenos Aires, Argentina. 
     
    Julio is a university professor specialising in Educational Psychology.  He possesses various certificates as well as a Masters in Education and Psychology. In 1994, he obtained a Masters degree in Genetic Epistemology at the Jean Piaget Centre for Interdisciplinary Studies and, during many years, studied philosophy and theology at the Catholic University of Argentina. 
     
    A teacher at all educational levels, Julio is Rector of the Emerson Institute, St. Mary's Institute, St. Jerome College, the Cervantes Institute and the Mariano Moreno Institute.  He is also head teacher at the Santa Clara Institute and full professor of Comparative Psychology and Educational Psychology at the John F. Kennedy University.  Julio was awarded the Medal of Honour by the "Bolsa de Comercio de Buenos Aires".  He is also a member and Fellow of the Higher Council for Catholic Education (CONSUDEC), an advisor to the Faculty of Humanities at the Catamarca National University, and is private secretary to the Archbishop and President of CELAM (Latin American Episcopal Conference), Bishop Dr. Antonio Quarracino. 
     
    As a professional educational psychologist and graphologist of over twenty years, Julio combines both these disciplines within education, recruitment and also in his private practice, specialising in educational and Gestalt graphology. 
     
    He is currently a full time professional involved in the areas of graphology, teaching, and along with his professional team, co-ordinates and supervises four graphology specialties in classes and online in Argentina and many other countries, using the Gestalt system as the main methodology. 
    Julio Cavalli is a founding member and current President of the Pan American Society of Graphology. The Association has branches in several countries such as Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Colombia, Costa Rica, Chile, USA, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay, Uruguay and Venezuela. 
     
    He is also an honorary member of several institutions: The Spanish Society of Graphology, The Brazilian Society of Graphology and the Association of Public Graphologists of the City of Buenos Aires. 
     
    Julio Cavalli has presented an enormous amount of work in several international conferences and has also written and published numerous monographs and articles on Graphology and Personality – many translated into other languages. 

    He also specialises in Enneagram theory and has written several essays on this topic, analyzing and correlating the handwriting eneatipos with the generic graphologies.  Julio is the author of "Un grafólogo no nace, se hace. Hacia una epistemología grafológica" ("A Graphologist is not Born, but Made.  Moving Forward to Graphology Epistemology.") 

     
    Professor Cavalli has been moderator of the International Forum of graphology, since 2000.  This is an online discussion list: http://www.elistas.net/lista/grafologia 
     
    Julio Cavalli is widely known and respected throughout the world and is perhaps recognised as the most important graphologist in Argentina.  This is due to the fact that he has been able to incorporate and implement graphology into the Argentinean curriculum and therefore achieve recognition of the subject by the national educational authorities.
     

  • Sencillez OrdenSencillez Orden
    Jefe de claves
    Número de entradas: 1475
    Professor Julio Cavalli, on behalf of Sencillez y Orden (and of the world). We are very grateful to you for opening your doors to us and letting us know a little more about a great person such as yourself and your important work on this discipline.  Many Thanks… 
     
    We leave you with a video https://www.youtube.com/embed/NO8_cxDIwR8 , which tries to project your most human side…
    See you soon!
    Mila Cuélliga
     
  • Julio CavalliJulio Cavalli
    Participante
    Número de entradas: 112
    Two years ago, a director of a multinational company came to me with about a series of serious threats he had been receiving in the form of anonymous letters.  These letters supposedly came from a former lover or a girlfriend of the family who was threatening to tell his wife and children all about their "affair".  To avoid any inconveniences, the victim had hidden this situation from his wife and was anxious to prevent any form of misfortune.  I asked him for any letters he had received from people within his environmental circle – including those from his wife and children.  It did take me long to conclude who was the author of the anonymous letters: his own wife.  Such was the amazement of this executive that his first reaction was to tell me that I was absolutely wrong.  I asked him to investigate the matter further.  Just two hours later he phoned me to tell me I was right.  His wife had been convinced that the tactic of deliberately deforming her handwriting characters would ensure that her identity would be protected.
  • Sencillez OrdenSencillez Orden
    Jefe de claves
    Número de entradas: 1475
    And finally Professor Cavalli, tell us about something that stood out for you with regard to a graphology report …
  • Julio CavalliJulio Cavalli
    Participante
    Número de entradas: 112
    One Monday morning in 1996, I got up early, and before going to the Emerson Institute, I took my usual daily walk to see Ivan, a German shepherd dog that would accompany me wherever I went.  When I got to the door of the Institute I saw that there was a queue of more than 20 people that went round the corner.  I thought the bakery in the square must have put up some form of “running out” notice or advertisement!   I went towards the square walked around, and half an hour later I returned to see twice as many people in the queue.  It seemed a bit strange to me that so many people had responded to a notice in the bakery.  I entered the premises and asked the owner – who I knew – if she had put up any form of notice or ad.  I was surprised when she told me that it was me they were waiting for – to open my Institute.  I still did not fully understand, so I asked people what was it that they wanted.  They responded that they were all coming to register for graphology and that the paper had said to arrive from 9 am. 
     
    I remembered the previous day – Sunday – a Buenos Aires newspaper called “Clarin”, one of the most important, had an extensive report on graphology and the official recognition by the educational authorities of the curriculum that had been presented.  You can just imagine my face, when, followed by my soon to be students, I opened the institute doors to find, quite logically I suppose, the face of Ivan, the German shepherd, looking at us all attentively!
  • Sencillez OrdenSencillez Orden
    Jefe de claves
    Número de entradas: 1475
    We have nearly finished the interview, but before you go, could you give us a humorous anecdote – something which occurred with regard to graphology?  
  • Julio CavalliJulio Cavalli
    Participante
    Número de entradas: 112
    Without doubt the officialisation of graphology as an independent career.  
    My conjecture?  Simply that graphology – within the human sciences – will seek an epistemological position that differentiates it, that rejects those scientistic attitudes that try to strip it of its ideology that works from its own perspective that is capable of expression, foundation and support.  It should do all this without becoming imposing – its “episteme” model, its method and theory.  In essence, a model within others that doesn’t seek to be crowned as a hegemonic "model". 
     
     
  • Sencillez OrdenSencillez Orden
    Jefe de claves
    Número de entradas: 1475
    So…in your experience, what is YOUR "before" and YOUR "after" in this discipline?  An elemental conjecture? 
     
     
  • Julio CavalliJulio Cavalli
    Participante
    Número de entradas: 112
    Let everyone do what they have to do.  Whilst the psychologist understands the interview as a therapeutic aid, the graphologist doesn’t have any need of an interview.  And what should exist is that which is understood as methodology and not that which is diagnostic.
     
    To be understood once and for all, that in the process in psychology is clinical and is denominated as psycho-diagnostic, whilst the process in graphology is methodological and is denominated as grapho-diagnostic.  The psychologist takes the individuals "answers" as material for clinical interpretation whilst the graphologist takes "answers" of an individual as material for characterlogical interpretation.  Any clinical diagnosis carried out by health professional is a tentative hypothesis of the personality structure of a subject.  For the graphologist though, any characterlogical diagnosis carried out by a professional graphological technician, is a synthesis of the personality structure of a subject.
     
    A psychologist infers and constructs a clinical diagnosis from what is observable in the patient.  The graphologist infers and constructs a graphological diagnosis from the graphical output of the client.
  • Sencillez OrdenSencillez Orden
    Jefe de claves
    Número de entradas: 1475
    Professor Julio Cavalli, in your opinion, in what state is graphology in today and where can it lead us? What do we need to change or leave behind? 
     
     
  • Julio CavalliJulio Cavalli
    Participante
    Número de entradas: 112
    Sceptics and critics of the use of graphology as an autonomous discipline or as a projective technique, argue that the lack of empirical evidence is a sufficient reason to not attribute any factual validity to graphology. 
     
    In the first place, it is important to discriminate the context in which these criticisms are made; recognise which segment of the scientific community carries out various negative reviews and under adherence to which epistemological theory.  And secondly, to point out who responds to these criticisms and, similarly, under what epistemological foundation they do so.  This methodological dissection is extremely important in order to enter the field of validation.  This maximises any validation you seek in the field of the psychology of writing (as in any projective technique) and is a validation by correlation.
     
    Independent of this scientific premise, we must remember that just as faith lives out of doubt, dogma lives out of heresy.  A theory is always accepted and rejected simultaneously by different sectors of the scientific community.  It is important to study these epistemological segments in order to analyse the opposition posture and determine whether they are valid or not.
     
    Every word or concept, each technique or graphological language, each supposed interpretation merits an important analysis that permits us to position them in their proper place within the variations of a phenomenology of the notional construction.  Each concept has its successive frames of interpretation and moves in a living process that determines its meaning across multiple unconscious connotations 
     
    The opinion of a scholar or a recognised thinker – whatever their intellect, ethics or social pre-eminence) – should not necessarily influence the path of validation of a science. But, yes, of course, the accredited foundation should influence the position and qualitative and quantitative references on the topic or issue you want to investigate, discuss, challenge or defend. 
     
    It is often the case that authors who adversely criticise graphology use a procedure lacking in validity: at the moment of expressing their opinions which are based upon the objective sources they have collected and then used to express their thoughts and conclusions, they then develop a synthesis of information from those very sources that become – whether consciously or not – a “personal investigation.” This often generates an absurd and belligerent discussion backed up by weak academic support.
     
    This reductionist view of graphology is present in almost all the negative reviews that circulate so much on the Internet and in academic publications of varying reputation and standing for example.  Reductionism rapidly converts into a dogma which interprets anything that which is different as a threat, and this attitude goes totally against my system of beliefs and ideas.  Thus, reductionism can only lead to a vicious cycle that, sooner or later, culminates into isolation. 
     
    The greatest sin we could commit is to keep looking for an epistemology that inevitably falls within the framework of the positivist model and not an alternative strategy.  We need to legitimize a graphology that is not identified as an underdeveloped model or an imperfect copy against the severity of the scientific norms and rules that were designed for other disciplines. 
     
    An example of these negative patterns – of which the psychology of handwriting can not adhere to in any way – is that which is represented by the dualistic Kantian ethics of the epistemologist Karl Popper.  Without generalizing, we can affirm that majority of censorship in the psychology of handwriting comes from a segment of the academic community which adheres to this epistemological reductionism.
     
     
  • Sencillez OrdenSencillez Orden
    Jefe de claves
    Número de entradas: 1475
    What do you think about the media’s attitude towards graphology?  Has it adopted a favourable or prejudicial position?  Or has the media had little social impact with this regard?
  • Julio CavalliJulio Cavalli
    Participante
    Número de entradas: 112
    The Pan American Graphology Society arose from an urgent necessity to provide help between fraternal countries, to find viable alternatives to the hierarchy of graphology, to share experiences, and fundamentally recuperate the creative capacity from there so that together we could find viable and possible answers in each country and region.  Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia, Chile, Peru, Mexico and USA were the first countries to be integrated in this way
  • Sencillez OrdenSencillez Orden
    Jefe de claves
    Número de entradas: 1475
    How did the Pan American Society come about?
  • Julio CavalliJulio Cavalli
    Participante
    Número de entradas: 112
    I must admit, I did not like participating in a disciplinary context with regard to a subject which was challenged and regarded by my peers as an esoteric segment.  This was the main reason I had the desire to prioritise graphology as an autonomous science and not a technique.  Graphology had to be redefined in Argentina, with its object of study, a particular method, and a specific base theory, tested and validated by multiple investigations.  And, fundamentally, using a verb that I pointed out before, "re-unite" the development of this autonomous discipline with the conceptual pillars of Projective Psychology. 
     
    My intention was always to return to the origins, re-assess the project – the basis of graphology theory – and to de-limit the object-model that supports it and its method opposed to behaviourism and its purpose.
     
    Then in 1996 – in August, 15 years later, occurred a truly historic moment – the General Directorate of Education of Buenos Aires approved the first curriculum to develop and incorporate the subject of graphology within the formal education system in Argentina.
     
    At that time I had founded the Emerson Institute (of which I dissociated myself with completely in 2002) which implemented the first official plan.
     
     
     
     
  • Sencillez OrdenSencillez Orden
    Jefe de claves
    Número de entradas: 1475
    How did the idea come about of ​​officially formalising the study of graphology in Argentina?
  • Julio CavalliJulio Cavalli
    Participante
    Número de entradas: 112
    No individual is self-sufficient.  The individual can only exist in an environmental field. The nature of the relationship between the subject and their environment is what determines their conduct and it is conduct which is projected definitely in the subject’s handwriting and graphics – whether these be weak, strong or perturbed. 
     
    The fundamental idea of ​​Gestalt is totality, i.e. Gestalt must be whole and complete – something which, by the way, usually does not occur – and it is graphologists that reveal the inconclusive cases that are striving to close and complete themselves without allowing the subject to see the obvious, thereby causing a projection of their neurotic states, living the real as imaginary and the imaginary as real. 
     
    Graphics, just like psychic processes, are about organisation and not the perception of individual components.  This is based on the theory of Von Ehrenfels who structured his theory taking the melody of a song – which is a form in itself and not the sum of sensations caused by each and every note in it – as an example.  The melody can be interpreted by other tonalities even though it remains the same melody – well Gestalt has the same. 
     
    Hermeneutic or interpretive work based on specific graphics is always a process as far as gestaltic graphology is concerned.  That is to say, "A series of produced phenomenon’s that will occur over a certain period of time" and this involves two essential conditions: contextualisation and dimension. “Contextualization” refers to all that is concerned with graphics and should be considered in context, being relative to the value of a sign in itself and by itself.  “Dimension” refers to the fact that every process has a beginning and an end.  
     
    Gestalt Graphology is the antithesis of the klagesian principles of DETERMINISM and BIO-CENTRISM.  It was designed as a constructive report and not a critical one.
     
     
     
     
  • Sencillez OrdenSencillez Orden
    Jefe de claves
    Número de entradas: 1475
    For those of us who do not know, can you explain what the Gestalt System is, what it consists of, and why its principal method is education?  
  • Julio CavalliJulio Cavalli
    Participante
    Número de entradas: 112
    I am tremendously hard on myself.  I will never demand something of someone that I haven’t done myself first.  I am very homely: I live on a ranch that has become the centre of my affections on the outskirts of Buenos Aires.  I'm not very fond of sports. In fact I have never set foot in a gym.  I'd rather climb trees and prune them myself.  I escape from noise.  I am a little on the workaholic side – I get up at 6 or 7am in the morning and often return at 10pm – obtaining a balance during my working day.  Encountering Buddhism has been very important in my life.  To see, analyse and act from a basis of compassion and the pursuit of happiness gave me a 180 degree turn to my existence.  I am a perfectionist, I find it difficult to say no, I do not like talking on the phone, I am a poor drawer and totally permissive with the children.<br />
     
  • Sencillez OrdenSencillez Orden
    Jefe de claves
    Número de entradas: 1475
     We know much about you from your graphology forum, facebook, twitter, … and it is clear that you are a great communicator, but what facets of Julio Cavalli do we not know about?  What is a typical day in the life of Julio Cavalli?
  • Julio CavalliJulio Cavalli
    Participante
    Número de entradas: 112
    I wanted to demolish from the very beginning any presence of magical thinking.   Nowadays graphology is experiencing an epistemological crisis.  "Crisis” as defined by the Chinese cultural understanding of the word which puts two characters combined in harmony, as opposites seeking an optimal synthesis: one character meaning "catastrophe" and the other meaning "hope." 
     
    Every crisis supposes a change, a modification, a before and after.  In these historic moments in the social sciences, we know that an appropriate epistemology in the field of graphology can not come from the outside within the same social field as an   enquiring imposition of its scientific validity.  We must look for its threshold within the very constitution of the social sciences, at the specific problem, and therefore what is responsible for its achievements and its failures.  Epistemology should appeal to all that the social sciences have revealed about human knowledge, the dialectical interaction with emotions, the praxis and the social insertion of the person 
     
    The Graphology or the Psychology of handwriting urgently needs an epistemological consensus.  That is to say, a formally developed plan which sets out a path which can be trodden firmly and with confidence.  At the present time this plan still hasn’t been fully developed.  In general, it is the graphologist not graphology that is put into question.  It is the work of the graphologist that it is held up in the web of judgement.  I would like to set out some thoughts of which I am absolutely convinced:
     
    Each society creates its own forms of knowledge development.  In fact, graphology – born and developed outside of the academical environment – has been able to create its own institutions, its own spaces, its own schools (with all the risks, successes and failures that this entails) but also the strength to promote a strong current within human sciences.
    Man, a material object of social sciences, has always carried out epistemology because he has always been a producer of knowledge and inquisitor of that knowledge.  The questions that graphology has addressed throughout its history along with the given answers during different epochs and places were pure epistemology.
    Graphology had the audacity to escape from the mere pragmatism which it in turn intended to reduce and to develop its own theoretical framework that strengthened its communicative action and allowed an academic dialectic in some countries that not only got stronger, but obtained a place of hierarchy and privilege.
    The greatest sin we could commit is to keep looking for an epistemology that inevitably falls within the framework of the positivist model and not an alternative strategy.  We need to legitimize a graphology that is not identified as an underdeveloped model or an imperfect copy against the severity of the scientific norms and rules that were designed for other disciplines. 
    Graphology – as a branch of social or human sciences – has debated since its origins between the reproduction method of the natural sciences and the foundation of other alternative methods.  Assuming that, in theory, there always exists an underlying anthropological conception, it is important to make a strenuous effort to make it explicit.  It is only in this way that the psychology of handwriting shall be open to an honest, speculative discussion and thereby be indisputably integrated into science – not lying underground and foreign to it.
     
     
  • Sencillez OrdenSencillez Orden
    Jefe de claves
    Número de entradas: 1475
    Let's talk about your book "A Graphologist is not born, but made".  Why that title?
  • Julio CavalliJulio Cavalli
    Participante
    Número de entradas: 112
    Although I trained (or rather they trained me) in the French School of graphology, my gaze was always distracted by the German School.   I specialised in this form for several years – specifically in the lines taken by Robert Heiss and Ursula Ave-Lallemant. 
     
    My permanent job is educational.  I am Director General at a major bilingual institution in Argentina that has three levels of instruction: beginner, primary and secondary.  So my specialisation, and that which is most developed, is with children and adolescents.  I should also add my work with the team I lead in the field of Personnel Selection. 
     
     
  • Sencillez OrdenSencillez Orden
    Jefe de claves
    Número de entradas: 1475
    We have already touched upon this question in the introduction, but what fields of graphology have you specialised in?
  • Julio CavalliJulio Cavalli
    Participante
    Número de entradas: 112
    I'm an educational psychologist with an ongoing commitment to genetic epistemology.  Throughout my training and during my work as a teacher, I have always looked for a dynamic and open search for knowledge versus the static, closed attitudes that dominate our scientific culture.  Bachelard said that society will be made by the school and not the reverse.  The biological dimension, interactionism and peagitian genetic constructivism offered me epistemological references that along with psychoanalytic developments provided me with a clear direction in my pedagogical tasks. 
     
    I have always looked to work from a didactic of emergents.  The emergent is always visible, everyday, and what is manifested is that which appears.  These are significant indicators of the relationship of any subject in a situation.  To me, Graphology always appeared – how shall I put it? – A genuine “didactic strategy”, a basic nucleus enabling an understanding of a student from an “emergent handwriting” standpoint.  The Integration and "re-uniting" of the contributions of Freud, Piaget, Ajuriaguerra, Wallon, and Pichon Rivière.  I added the contribution from graphology as another variable for the interrogation of reality from assumptions and paradigms defined from a theory. 
     
    The first book I got my hands on in the 80’s was by Silvia Ras.  In 1994, I crossed paths with two people that got me involved permanently with graphology: Silvia Bloise and Rita Cuello.  Since then my relationship with this discipline has been uninterrupted.  I remember long conversations with Dr. Amado Ballandras in his study in Buenos Aires – many of which I have recorded.
  • Sencillez OrdenSencillez Orden
    Jefe de claves
    Número de entradas: 1475
    You are a psychologist.  How did you come to get involved with graphology and at what institution did you study the subject?

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